Editors Ramblings
Dairy dates
Fore Beam Re-sleeve
Letters
IOA Classifieds
Hello, welcome to my first attempt at compiling the IOA newsletter. I have offered to undertake this role (although rather in awe of my predecessors) and hope you find the results pleasing. I offer my thanks and I’m sure all IOA members would like to thank Philip for his work on the newsletter over the last year. As is normal with most of the previous editors I am in need of as many contributions as possible. I have quite a few ideas for future articles, but still need many more. We are now fast approaching laying up time and I expect many of your are contemplating modifications for next year. Whether its a small deck hardware change to make life easier or something more extreme like fixed keels and twin diesels drop me a line. Also if any one sees anything at the boat shows that’s new and maybe relevant to our application drop me a line or two. As normal disk is best in ASCII, Word or Lotus Word Pro formats but I should be able to read most common formats or you can E-mail me, you’ll find my address on the front page. Good old pen and paper is also warmly welcomed.
I plan to carry on with the A4 format as it is the simplest for me. I have access to a scanner and a digital camera so hope to pep up the appearance of articles with some pictures. If you have pictures to go with any articles, they do need to be fairly bright and well lit to be of use, but send whatever you have and I will see which ones work. The problem is they degrade a little in the scanning, then the printing, and finally the photo copying, it’s normally the darker ones which come out worst. Of course your comments and suggestions are welcome.
There is notice of an east coast rally for early October else where in this newsletter and I have also proposed some tentative dates for next year for South and East coast meets. If you are interested let the contact person/s know as soon as possible and they can firm up tides location etc. I for one enjoy a good chin wag, looking at other peoples boats and ideas for improvement, and I think this goes for most of us.
Our plans for winter lay up include fitting two Lewmar 20 hatches in the bridge deck roof, (we don’t have the opening ones in the main windows) resurfacing the cockpit floor, bridge deck root, new inner forestay bracket and running back stays so we can set a staysail/storm jib in light and heavy weather and if time permits a head lining and some other trim bits.
IOA member Jeff Dickson is running a “page” on the Internet. For all you people who have access it can be found at www.sover.nettjdickson/mail.html (This has now moved. Please see link on Homepage - Ed). I believe most members who currently have access to the Internet have found and visited, but just in case. I plan to include some of the more relevant bits from the web page in future newsletters.
On an administration note Thelma has asked me to remind you that subscription time (1998) is looming and we are still waiting for quite a few for this year.
You should have received a reprint of the original sailing manual, which shows its age but I think that it covers the pertinent bits well and many items still apply. I’m sure that we can use the information in the context of our own boats and their set up to our advantage.
I hope you all enjoy what is left of this season.
Tim Ball
UK East Coast Autumn Meeting and AGM on Saturday 11th and Sunday 12th October 1997 in Walton Backwaters (Secret Waters to Arthur Ransome addicts). Saturday’s neap tides are ideal for getting there - local LW is 1344 BST and HW is 2000 BST. So, we’ll meet in the Harbour Lights club/restaurant at Titchmarsh Marina at 1630 BST on the Saturday. Ken Pack (by car), Bob Hawkins (aboard Great Spirit) and Philip Corridan (aboard Alleda) will be there, why not join us? The main benefit of a meeting is usually the chance to investigate other’s boats, soaking up the good ideas and keeping quiet about the bad! However, we hope to get in a little sailing too, depending on the weather. On Saturday evening, after a short AGM, Philip threatens to talk about sailing an Iroquois around the world and on Sunday we’re aiming to have a short sail in company followed by a raft-up/anchoring for lunch in Hamford Water or Landamere Creek, before heading for home. Please phone Bob Hawkins (01480 890376 after 15/9/97) to make sure you are expected - Titchmarsh is a popular marina!
I think it's about time we had a few more social events, it seems over the last few years things have tailed off. There have been several requests for an East coast gathering which has been arranged and I am sure many of the newer owners would love to exchange ideas with some of the more established owners.
I have taken it upon myself to suggest some dates and venues for next year, these are provisional (my 1998 tide tables were on the boat when writing this). If you think you would like to attend get in touch with the contacts listed below. The venues for the meets could be changed if they don’t suit the majority.
7th and 8th June South coast meet - Bembridge contact Tim Ball - 01483-721273
23rd and 24th August South coast - Chichester contact - Tim Ball 01483-721273
I’m sure another East coast meet would be good, I’ll try and get an organiser before the winter news letter.
This article is reproduced on Jeff Dickson's website with better photos than I have. Please press here to link to the article.
We bought Delphin Iroquois Mk II #86 in October. The boat was originally called Catawampus and then Abraxas. The boat was here in Gibraltar and will remain based here as we moved here from England 5 years ago. To my knowledge it is the only Iroquois for a long way. Hopefully we will cruise around the area including Morocco, although most of our sailing will be short range and weekending. I hope our 3 young children will enjoy it.
We have owned an Iroquois Mk I before and I am impressed with the improvements in the MIk II. If the Mk II is slower than the Mk I there can’t be much in it.
So far I have had to do some work to get the main structure seaworthy and the boat was in quite a state of neglect . So far I have:
With all the junk removed she has come out of the water about 6 inches and is now pretty close to her designed waterline.
Much cosmetic work needs to be done; in particular I will have to replace the wooden rubbing strake all around the boat, and I would be very grateful for any suggestions for a replacement.
When we owned our previous boat I enjoyed the IOA newsletter very much and we attended a rally at the Isle of Wight. My recollection is that we actually met you (Ken) on that occasion but I am sure that it was on board an Apache not an Iroquois. Perhaps I am mistaken but I am not expecting a rally to take place anywhere in our current cruising ground!
Regards,
David and Joan Hutchings
4 Oak Tree Lodge,
Montagu Gardens, Gibraltar
Dear David
Thank you for your interesting letter and cheque and welcome back to the IOA.
We are somewhat in a state of flux in that the newsletter editor has retired and been replaced. I am retiring and as yet have no replacement. I enclose copies of the last two newsletters and will send you the new register when our new arrangements are decided in September.
However this is not quite so traumatic as to find you have my boat!. I think you will find your boat number is 82 and "Thelken" is 86.
I think because the Iroquois is such a pure sailing boat the winds in the Med. do not favour her and Delphin is likely to remain lovely. I only know of a Cherokee in Calpe and a Commanche in Altea.
Clearly your experience previously with the Mk I has left an indelible mark. Your list of works are so appropriate to the boat at her present age. Replacing the rubbing strake is much to do with the limitation caused by the deep groove cut out from the back required to cover up the joint lip between deck and hull moulds. The wood you select should be much decided by the necessary torturing. I've opted out in favour of repairs particularly because of access behind anchor locker etc. Alternatively there are several PVC, rubber and aluminium extrusions which are not so pretty but very practical for mooring preventor, spinnaker connections etc.
Your memory is not failing; yes I did one year attend the rally in the Apache which is now quietly degenerating in Venezuala.
Happy sailing with your Family.
Ken
Is it possible to obtain / buy a sailing manual for the Iroquois? I admit it's rather late after 20 years of sailing (and capsizing) one, but there is always more to learn.
I hope that one way or the other, there will be an IOA meeting this fall (East Coast quite convenient) which I can attend.
Is it still possible to buy a complete original set of sails for the Iroquois? Are there reasons not to buy an original set? Our first set was made by Austin Favier(?), are they still in business? Are there alternatives? I hope you can give me some information because there is hardy any difference between our bed sheets and sails.
This is it for now, thank you very much for all your knowledge and expertise you have given us via the newsletters.
Best wishes, good sailing etc.
Roelf Toxopeus,
J. de Bekastar 71b,
3514 VL Utrecht, The Netherlands.
Mk IIa #219 Suzanne
Dear Roelf
The next news letter will contain a sailing manual and hopefully a proposed AGM on the East Coast.
Your questions about sails raises the eternal question. There is of course a plan of the old sail wardrobe which together with all other sail plans became redundant and expensive with the foresail reefing gear which most boats now have. Most sail makers will of course make up an original set of sails, but what in?
When Sail Craft were in business such modifications were included, tried and thoroughly tested. The new system would then be available for earlier boats. These modifications can now only be tested and reported on by Iroquois owners and since sailing is more of an art than a science there is not much consensus. Sailmakers do not try the boats either, so the choice is very much down to their reputation and their availability should there be a problem.
The most interesting development I have heard of recently is Chris Nutt’s boat in Ireland who has installed an Aerorig and has generously offered me a sail. From sailing a Sagitta (Woods design) with Aerorig I believe it would be a very apt solution. Most of us however do the best we can usually based around the crew available. There is of course a lot of intricate professional design work in Iroquois to deal with power from the rig to the hull producing forward movement so the challenge is efficiency.
From the rigs I have seen my opinion is that the original 180% Genoa’s (even 150%) pull the head off and create undue leeway largely due to the inevitable set created by the shrouds. If you roll away 40% the forestay lath becomes baggy and the sail shape is lost, so you lose a working head sail. I have had a 130% made which rolls down efficiently to little more than an original No. 2 jib. For light weather use I supplement this with a light weight dinghy jib on the inner forestay, this creates a good slot between genoa and main up to about force 2 when the pull is too much on the stay. With judicious use of the leeboards this can be very effective.
Today's battens enable a fully battened main to become very efficient but an oversized, over efficient main unbalances the boat. A 10% area reduction compensates with the advantage in reducing the centre of effort height. To further reduce with a ‘roach’ can have merit but to reduce the area from the foot creates an imbalance in moving the centre of effort forward. Again the advantages of single line reefing and combined zip up cover and lazy jacks are irresistible when renewing.
This as I say, is only my opinion. The standard of the many sails I have leaves a lot to be desired and could well wrongly influence these conclusions. It is also many years since we tried to race from Weymouth to Cherbourg with 5 sails set - well when I say set perhaps tortured may be more in context.
Glad to her from you and I hope “Suzanne” continues to give you good sailing
Ken
Ed:- We have a similar set up on “Jan” with a Genoa around 130%, this works very well. The clew sheets to a car set about 5” out from the shrouds and about 12" back, this set up enables us to point very well indeed. It's a bit small off the wind but I would like a large genakker on a short bowsprit (one day). We are also planning to beef up the inner forestay brackets and add running backstays so we can set a staysail/storm jib independently of the furling headsail.
Having recently purchased “Sitting Bull”, an Iroquois Mk IIa, from Mr John Rolfe, I would be grateful if you could send me an application form for membership to the IOA.
As you know, John spent many years as the editor of the association’s news letters and from the past news letters which I have read he played a ‘larger than life and active part within the association with his helpful advice and his far thinking visions for the future of the boat. It is with this in mind that I thank him for all his honest advice and direction when we discussed what was required to be ‘put right’ in order to get Sitting Bull back where she belongs, in the water.
Just to bring you up to date with Sitting Bull, she has been sat in the yard at Thornham Marina for some considerable time, awaiting a buyer. I had originally travelled down to Thornham Marina, with my wife Rocio and 2 young children (aged 3 and 5) to have a look at a Strider Club which was advertised for sale. Fortunately, as it turns out , Rocio took one look at the fibreglass platform joining the two hulls together, took one look at the children, and said NO. As any husband knows, there’s no point in arguing when maternity instincts are involved so I resigned myself to the fact that a Strider Club was not for ‘us’. It was at this point that Sitting Bull was introduced to us as being potentially within our budget but requiring a ‘bit’ of TLC.
After the initial stampede by my children to get aboard and the subsequent casual examination by Rocio, both parties declared that this was the one for us. I was then given the chance to step aboard and have a look around myself. There was evidently a lot of work required to be completed before this boat would ever sail again but from what I could see most of the work was of a man-hours intensive, cosmetic nature. My interest was definitely aroused as it was an opportunity for us to acquire a boat of the size and type we had always wanted, at a price which we could probably just manage.
I returned for two more visits to Sitting Bull, this time by myself, so that I could have a good look over the boat. I was not concerned about the cosmetic aspect of the boat or its ‘whistles and bells’, and concentrated on examining the structural integrity of every inch. Although not qualified in any way whatsoever in carrying out marine surveying, I do have an aeronautical engineering background and have been trained to carry out detailed inspections on composite airframe structures and was therefore confident about what to look for and the areas of the boat most likely to have suffered most. The boat was amazingly sound considering her 27 years of age. There were no signs of delamination, stress fractures, cracks, osmosis or any other type of serious ailment affecting the structure. My main observation had been the water stains running down the inside of the coachroof on the port and starboard sides, just forward of the front edges of the side windows, which caused concern. Now knowing from my investigation how the mast was supported and how the mast loads were transferred via the running rigging into the chainplates and the steel ‘W’ frame mast step, the coachroof had little to do with the integrity of keeping the mast aloft. I suspected that the seal around the base of the mast on the coachroof, caused by flexing of the mast, or the ‘seals’ around the forward grab-rail mounting points had been leaking, allowing water to enter the end-grain balsa sandwich construction.
I pulled off a small piece of the inner lamination from the coachroof and water of a very unpleasant nature poured out. My suspicions had been confirmed and I suspected that the inner core had probably rotted. I could also feel that the internal GRP lamination had delaminated in many places in the forward area of the coachroof. Other than this, the steering in bits, and a dent/crack in the forward aluminium crossbeam, all seemed to be extremely sound.
Anyway, with this in mind, and not wanting a professional survey carrying out, I went ahead and made an offer. It was below John’s asking price, but it was the only offer I could afford, knowing that if the offer was rejected, it would be end of yet another dream. To cut a long story short John accepted and, low and behold, I am now the very, very proud owner of a boat which requires a lot of work to return it to its former glory.
She has already been transported overland to the airfield where I work (a bit of a story in itself and an eye opener for incoming aircraft) and is lying in the caravan park where work is well underway on the coachroof repair.
As mentioned earlier, I have experience with aircraft composite repairs, metal working and electronics which I hope will translate into ‘boat repair techniques’. As my repair reference, I am using a book called ‘Topic 6’ (borrowed from work), which is a book containing a compilation of approved repair schemes for military helicopters, so hopefully the repairs will be of an extremely high structural standard.
The repairs I intend to carry out in the future months are:
All the repairs are intended to be carried out on a shoe string budget, but to a standard that doesn’t compromise structural integrity in any way whatsoever. My priority is to return the boat’s structure to an ‘as new condition at the expense of gadgets and luxuries (these hopefully, can come later). I proudly carry the name of “scrimper” on my shoulders, as I do not believe in spending money on someone else doing a job which can be carried out just as competently by ME. It may take longer for me to do a particular job, but at the end of the day, I at least know that its been correctly carried out.
I would be glad to put pen to paper and detail the various repairs carried out on Sitting Bull, with step by step instructions, explanatory photos and drawings if people are interested, forming a technical column as such. I would also be most interested to hear from other members of the IOA on their views on my repairs, whether approving or disapproving, or whether its been done before in a better/different way.
I would also be most grateful for any ideas for improvements from other members which have been incorporated on their boats as now is the ideal time (with a boat that is totally stripped) to consider building them into Sitting Bull, as I am sure that there has been many innovative ideas which have improved these lovely boats over the decades that they have been sailing.
Well must finish, got lots of work to do you know.
I look forward to hearing from you.
Regards,
Andy and Rocio Taylor,
112 Poplar Path,
Middle Wallop,
Stockbridge,
Hants
DearAndy,
You are right ‘Sitting Bull" has sat too long. Rocio obviously is blessed with good taste. The problem with buying such a boat is that it becomes a challenge to keep her cheap, when in fact it is an opportunity to put the boat back in the water in a thoroughly refurbished condition and from what you say it all augurs well.
Taking your points:-
Over the years I have found the improvements to be a relative term. We all tend to do our own thing without understanding the original idea of the designer. For me the result has been I gain my original intention but find there is a loss elsewhere I had not considered. For example. I have seen drawers put in under the forward berths which of course breaks down the safety of compartmentation which I am sure saved at least one boat’s crew. We shall be most interested to hear how all the works proceed.
Ken
Ed: I am sure many members would be interested to here more about the core replacement process.
As you might remember, I fitted a Petter mini twin to Baru, which was inadequate in terms of power at the prop. The l2hp was fine in theory, but useless when trying to buck the tide with a bit of wind on the nose.
I now have a Beta Marine 18hp 3cyl, (a worked-on Kubota) which serves extremely well (with an optional 50 amp alternator) and am writing to pass on the snags I've encountered specific to my installation on a Mk II Iroquois.
Engine under the chart table a la "Gun Gun", with fuel tank in the left aft port locker. Result: the engine was sucking air in because it had to lift the fuel up hill. I've installed a locally fabricated tank in the cockpit locker and this has done the trick.
Getting the power to the prop in my case is very simple using the device some Wharrams use. (I believe you may have my photocopies of this) but I have had problems keeping the water out of the engine pod where the shaft emerges from it.
This season I am using the cheapest and simplest solution to the problem so far, and it is working well. I’ve bolted a large flat rubber washer to the pod and the shaft emerges through it.
I believe the shape and size of the pod are critical to a successful diesel installation, unless you are going to upset the sailing balance and place the engine/s in the aft lockers.
Yours Sincerely
Russi Dordi,
Lavender Cottage,
114 Broadway,
Herne Bay,
Kent
Has any one replaced the bolts that hold the mast support frame in place? And if so have you any idea what sizes are used. If there are any tips to doing this I would also be grateful. Mine are very rusty and I’m unable to determine their size, I would like to be able to order them in advance of starting the job.
Jerry Lugert. Email:- jlugert@nsn.k12.nv.us
Jerry
The only thing I can offer is to remind you to slacken off the rig first, but I expect that you have already worked that out. My support frame is a little different from standard, I believe it was fitted after the helicopter rig was removed. But I'm sure someone out there knows, if so drop us a line. I'm certain Jerry's not the only one out there with rusty nuts.
If you have any IOA related items for sale call or write with the details.
IOA Chairperson and Treasurer; don't need to be a matching pair, any age or condition. Remuneration is purely satisfaction and gratitude from other IOA members. Contact Ken or Thelma for details.